|
Post by escuelaslinux on Nov 8, 2023 18:33:22 GMT
Good catch! The version of xorg included in Debian 11 Bullseye is 7.7+22, so it is way > 1.19
So it is not possible to use the original NVIDIA proprietary driver created for this old GPU.
If the Lenovo machines have 2 GB of RAM, you can test how our 64-bit edition works with TinkerCAD, you don't even have to install it, just test it directly from the Live environment on the USB stick. If that works, you might have to install the 64-bit edition on the Lenovos, even though they might not be as fast as the 32-bit edition. Of course, if they have 4 GB of RAM, the 64-bit edition would be better.
|
|
|
Post by escuelaslinux on Nov 9, 2023 4:16:18 GMT
I wondered why I had thought so lightly about installing nvidia-304... then I remembered! Around 2021 I was chatting and experimenting with Robert Wiley about which kernel would be best for a Debian-based Bodhi 32-bit. To cut a long story short, this is what I found at the time:
"Good morning mister!I took the liberty of playing around with the nvidia-legacy-304 deb package on Bodhi Bullseye, just to see what might happen. The good news is that it is possible to get it working as a dkms module in kernel 4.9 by installing the dependency packages from a stretch source. Of course, I don't know if this driver would actually work, as I don't have a machine with an old nvidia card. The bad news -Kernel 5.10 does not compile the nvidia-304 dkms module. No big news there; the nvidia-legacy-304 driver would not recognise a major kernel version that did not exist at the time. -To fix the dependencies, it was necessary to downgrade xserver-xorg-core to 1.19, so I ended up downgrading xserver-xorg and a bunch of xserver-xorg-video-* packages that were uninstalled when I removed the 5.10 kernel. I don't know if this situation was artificially created by package dependencies that don't allow xserver higher than 1.19, and if it could actually work fine with xserver 1.20. I think your own tests with the nvidia stuff are very important for building the Debian-based Bodhi. Since this release of the distribution is intended to be useful on old machines, the nvidia driver is a demonstration of all the quirks and problems that can arise when trying to support old components on a newer Debian-based release".
Later I added:
"So it is an impossible endeavour to have a specific Linux kernel that serves all old hardware well. Depending on the choice, we can play with different variables: Kernel 4.9 would have no problem installing the NVIDIA driver (assuming we also downgrade xorg?), so we could include the deb files for kernel 4.18 (to support VIA) and 3.16 (to support SiS) on our ISO. Kernel 4.18 would have no problem installing VIA, but we would need to include the deb files for 4.9 (to support NVIDIA) and 3.16 (to support SiS) on our ISO".
Escuelas Linux 8.5 includes the files to downgrade to the 3.16 kernel -see "Downgrade your Linux kernel on 32-bit", page 119 of our Installation Guide- but doing all the things required to downgrade xorg to 1.19 is also a real pain in the a**. Much easier is to check if 64-bit and its nouveau driver could work.
|
|
enigma9o7
Crew Member
Posts: 1,427
Likes: 1,336
|
Post by enigma9o7 on Nov 9, 2023 6:41:18 GMT
Good catch! The version of xorg included in Debian 11 Bullseye is 7.7+22, so it is way > 1.19
The version of X is confusing in debian as it doesn't match the package version.... run "xdpyinfo | grep version" to see actual version.
Debian 11 = 1.20.11 Debian 12 = 1.22.1.9 Debian Testing (as of today) = 1.23.2.2
Anyways your next message confirms the main point, it wont work with modern Bodhi/Escuelas. In fact, there are patches to get it to work with modern linux kernels, but its the xorg version that we cannot get around. There is a community slackbuild for the last working xorg (1.19.7) and nvidia-304 for kernel 6.5 if someone really really wants to get opengl2 acceleration today from that old gpu, but that's not usable with debian/ubuntu/bodhi/escuelas.
|
|
|
Post by maxheadroom on Nov 9, 2023 9:35:50 GMT
No luck with the 64-bit...
if it's of any help, the Core 2 Duo machine has an Nvidia C73 (GeForce 7050, nForce 610i rev a2) GPU. The Lenovos (eight of which make the bulk of the available machines) have an Nvidia C51G (GeForce 6100 rev a2).
I also tried disabling the hardware acceleration from inside the browser's settings, but that didn't help either...
|
|
|
Post by escuelaslinux on Nov 9, 2023 11:08:15 GMT
Following enigma9o7's lead, I came across this really great and well documented tutorial about installing the NVIDIA drivers on Debian/Ubuntu based distros:
www.if-not-true-then-false.com/2021/debian-ubuntu-linux-mint-nvidia-guide/Unfortunately, your NVIDIA GPUs are only supported by the nvidia-304 driver:
download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/495.46/README/supportedchips.htmlSince the nvidia-304 driver would only work with xorg up to 1.19, there is no feasible way to get opengl acceleration on the current Debian/Ubuntu/Bodhi/Escuelas branch. I believe that Tinkercad would not work even if we had xorg 1.19 up and running, as Tinkercad probably uses a fairly recent OpenGL specification to run over the web, one that did not exist when nvidia-304 was released.
|
|
|
Post by maxheadroom on Nov 10, 2023 13:28:13 GMT
I installed at the Core 2 Duo machine a spare PCI-e graphics card I had at home; the super-important TinkerCAD now runs flawlessly, plus I got back some RAM that was previously used for video! All I have to do now, is find eight more for the Lenovos. :-D
|
|
enigma9o7
Crew Member
Posts: 1,427
Likes: 1,336
|
Post by enigma9o7 on Nov 11, 2023 5:19:27 GMT
FYI, I was curious exactly what graphics requirement tinkercad needed so looked it up. It appears you need webgl support. I guess the nouveau driver isn't providing that eh? bummer.
|
|
|
Post by escuelaslinux on Nov 11, 2023 14:03:11 GMT
I found a promising post from a guy who managed to install nvidia-304 on a modern 64-bit Ubuntu-based distro:
forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=335583As expected, doing all this stuff is a real pain, but who knows? maybe it will work? If you manage to do this, you won't have to downgrade Firefox, because Escuelas Linux includes both the current version and an old version in Menu -> Applications -> Internet -> Firefox ESR, which is the last version that supported the use of Flash and Java applets, since many schools still require the use of educational resources created on those legacy development platforms.
PS WebGL 1.0 was released in March 2011. The NVIDIA 304 driver was released in November 2012, so maybe the driver has some WebGL support? As I said, ThinkerCAD probably uses a newer OpenGL/WebGL specification or version that would not be supported by the old NVIDIA driver.
|
|
|
Post by maxheadroom on Nov 11, 2023 20:59:26 GMT
|
|
|
Post by escuelaslinux on Nov 11, 2023 21:50:03 GMT
In my opinion, the safest thing to do would be to buy the same PCI-e graphics card that you had at home, because you have already tested it and it works fine!
|
|
|
Post by maxheadroom on Nov 11, 2023 21:51:04 GMT
Correct, but I can't find it in stock at the shop.
|
|
|
Post by maxheadroom on Nov 12, 2023 9:40:18 GMT
Ok, this is for the Linux-ninjas to decipher. Someone says that the Nvidia 304 driver disables WebGL to prevent browser fingerprinting. This is caused by privacy.resistFingerprinting = true forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=335583&start=20Is there any chance this can somehow be applied in our case? I asked my browsers and they don't mind being fingerprinted. :-D
|
|
|
Post by escuelaslinux on Nov 12, 2023 15:46:26 GMT
By reading that thread, I guess you would only have to set
privacy.resistFingerprinting = false webgl.disabled = false
|
|
|
Post by maxheadroom on Nov 12, 2023 18:10:32 GMT
Do I input these commands at the Escuelas terminal or do I have to open a console at Firefox?
Please forgive my ignorance, I'm just a humble Technology teacher trying to set-up a computer lab without spending any money. :-D
|
|
|
Post by escuelaslinux on Nov 12, 2023 21:39:20 GMT
You would have to type
about:config [enter] in the Firefox address bar, then type the name of the parameter you'd like to set.
|
|