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Post by makar0va on Dec 1, 2023 13:19:19 GMT
1. Where did you set the QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE environment variable? I need to disable it.  2. Where are the window borders set? In the Moksha theme or in the GTK theme? |
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Post by ylee on Dec 1, 2023 15:23:47 GMT
Moksha sets QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE itself. See Settings Panel -> Advanced -> Environment variables in the Menu.
If I understand what you mean window borders are set in the Moksha Theme.
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Post by makar0va on Dec 1, 2023 15:40:09 GMT
Thanks!
First question because even if the applications use QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE, they still have the 'kDisease' and when saving or opening the files, the dialog shows KDE icons from the past.
Theoretically, apt install qconf qt5ct qt5-style-kvantum qt5-style-kvantum-themes and setting QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=qt5ct in /etc/environment would fix the themes and icons.
Second question, because the two windows in the image above have different border widths. The large window has thick borders all around, and the small window has 3 different border widths.
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Post by ylee on Dec 1, 2023 16:00:27 GMT
We inherited that QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE settings from enlightenment and I have left it as it is. I change it myself in an attempt to make certain QT apps look "better." But overall making QT apps look correct in non QT window managers can be a pain.
On the window border thing you mention I am uncertain.
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enigma9o7
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Post by enigma9o7 on Dec 1, 2023 20:20:38 GMT
I also use qt5ct to set the icons and font, although I don't use kvantum, I set it to gtk2 in qt5ct (and cleared the environment variable). It would be nice if moksha set the icon theme for qt5, but moksha settings only cover gtk icons/theme (besides moksha itself of course).
And then there's qt6 used by new apps... and qt4 used by some old apps (like vlc)... It's a big hassle to get moksha, gtk, qt4/qt5/qt6, and elementary apps to all look the same.
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Post by makar0va on Dec 2, 2023 9:07:20 GMT
It would be nice if moksha set the icon theme for qt5, but moksha settings only cover gtk icons/theme (besides moksha itself of course).
And then there's qt6 used by new apps... and qt4 used by some old apps (like vlc)... It's a big hassle to get moksha, gtk, qt4/qt5/qt6, and elementary apps to all look the same.
It would be nice if Moksha had an icon set that deserved to be called an icon set.  But luckily there's Pling to save the day.
VLC in Bodhi:
VLC themed and kvantumized:
Yes, the current state is a "historically grown mess," but the real problem is that no one is willing to change it. The sad fact is that the developers would usually rather add new and useless features than fix the existing design problems.
First comes the realization that there is a problem, second comes the understanding of its cause, and third comes the willingness to fix it. The problem with Linux is that a lot of people (especially the developers) can't even see that there's a problem, and even when they do, they tell you to fix it yourself. And it takes the realization that it takes different skills to make something work well and to make it look good. The former usually lack the skills needed for the latter, and vice versa, but the former don't accept being told what to do.
At the end of the day, we end up with 300 distributions and only two or three that look good, ironically the best looking one is the one people spit on because it takes away their freedom to tinker. The Linux landscape is never going to change.
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xpistian
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Post by xpistian on Dec 2, 2023 11:39:19 GMT
It would be nice if moksha set the icon theme for qt5, but moksha settings only cover gtk icons/theme (besides moksha itself of course).
And then there's qt6 used by new apps... and qt4 used by some old apps (like vlc)... It's a big hassle to get moksha, gtk, qt4/qt5/qt6, and elementary apps to all look the same.
It would be nice if Moksha had an icon set that deserved to be called an icon set... the current state is a "historically grown mess," but the real problem is that no one is willing to change it. The sad fact is that the developers would usually rather add new and useless features than fix the existing design problems.
First comes the realization that there is a problem, second comes the understanding of its cause, and third comes the willingness to fix it. The problem with Linux is that a lot of people (especially the developers) can't even see that there's a problem, and even when they do, they tell you to fix it yourself. And it takes the realization that it takes different skills to make something work well and to make it look good. The former usually lack the skills needed for the latter, and vice versa, but the former don't accept being told what to do.
At the end of the day, we end up with 300 distributions and only two or three that look good, ironically the best looking one is the one people spit on because it takes away their freedom to tinker. The Linux landscape is never going to change.
I agree that the default icon theme could be better. However, "design problems" might not be important to developers. And a feature that you call useless is, in the eye of the developer, probably very important. As you said, the skill to make something look good isn't one the dev might have in abundance.
Not sure which distribution the one people spit on is, but the way you're describing it reminds me of MacOS or, to a lesser degree, Windows, which are not Linux distributions.
However, I think that many Linux distributions do look good. In the end, however, I don't choose a distro for its look. I run Gentoo, Mint and Bodhi. Gentoo for my own system on which I tinker a lot. My wife has Mint, because it is all around just very comfortable and easy to maintain. On an old laptop I run Moksha, because it's not so heavy on resources and offers something different with Moksha.
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Post by thewaiter on Dec 2, 2023 11:52:09 GMT
I am a coder and theme designer here and I am not sure what you are talking about. I modificated and improved MokshaGreen theme to distro needs and also created GTK theme for this Moksha theme to match. I also created Icon set with tool called Oomox and yes, we can call it the Icon set. More over, my code sets GTK and ELM theme and icon set automatically when main (Moksha) theme is set. Of course you can change what ever you want in Moksha settings. This is the default MokshaGreen theme in "action". As you can see VLC is fully covered and also there is no problem with border frame. Not sure what you installed and how i.imgur.com/Qu6VFyQ.png Stefan/Bodhi dev EDIT: you need to install qt5-gtk2-platformtheme to use GTK theme for qt applications |
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Post by makar0va on Dec 2, 2023 12:26:21 GMT
I agree that the default icon theme could be better. However, "design problems" might not be important to developers. And a feature that you call useless is, in the eye of the developer, probably very important. As you said, the skill to make something look good isn't one the dev might have in abundance.
Not sure which distribution the one people spit on is, but the way you're describing it reminds me of MacOS or, to a lesser degree, Windows, which are not Linux distributions.
However, I think that many Linux distributions do look good. In the end, however, I don't choose a distro for its look. I run Gentoo, Mint and Bodhi. Gentoo for my own system on which I tinker a lot. My wife has Mint, because it is all around just very comfortable and easy to maintain. On an old laptop I run Moksha, because it's not so heavy on resources and offers something different with Moksha.
1a. There are some simple design rules. Either all the icons are monochrome or colored. Either they are all "classic" or "flat". Either way, the icons should be technically well done. Bodhi "Reboot" is an example of a bad conversion, where the aspect ratio of the icon got screwed up for some reason. 1b. There are design problems (usability) and "design problems" (appearance). There was a distribution whose developers refused to add the volume button to the panel. Removing the volume button takes 2 clicks; adding it takes about 9 or more, IF you know where and how to do it. Considering that most people use their computers to surf the web, it is highly likely that they will end up on YouTube, at least once in a while. Does the developers' decision make sense? 1c. The running instances counter, that annoying number on the Bodhi icons, is simply unhelpful (usability) and annoying (appearance). Reading "12" doesn't help from a usability perspective. Hovering the mouse over "12" and having the system show you 12 screen previews and NO number would be helpful and not annoying because you could see what is currently open in each instance. Like Cinnamon (== Windows) does. 2. Rarely does anyone on DW praise Fedora GNOME for its elegance and beauty, and for its simplicity and ease of use. 3a. That depends on how much you know about design. Most distributions look terrible, and most of the rest look good at first glance, until you take a second look... 3b. ...but if you don't care, that's fine. Not caring about looks makes the choice easier. 3c. To each his own - for his own reasons.
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Post by thewaiter on Dec 2, 2023 13:02:27 GMT
I can not "fight" with your points here and I accept them. We have no educated graphician here so we do our best to bring as good looking distro as we could. If you feel educated enough and willing to help, you can contribute. It is too easy to criticize but of course it is legitimate. We are only 2 real devs and some guys around for whole distro covering everything the distro needs: ISOs, code, themes, support, web, even YT videos. Our main goal is to provide minimalistic but good looking and super stable distribution not only for old computers. We have families, jobs, hobbies and other activities in real life. In case of 5+ devs team, it will significantly raise the project quality. Yes, I know Cinnamon or Windows has window preview feature. It is on my todo list but everyhing requires hundreds of hours in front of screen. What I do as front end coder is to have basic features most distros have. We forked Enlightenment 17 in 2015 full of bugs, unfinished modules and bad shape in general. We spent thousands hours solving bugs and adding new features for our users. Long term users will agree Bodhi is in best shape ever these days. Simple details like icons, iBar numbers (BTW idea "stolen" from Cinnamon) and other details could be important for you sensitive eyes but our to-do list is full of more serious duties. Anyway, as I said if you feel you are that right person for our project and you are ABLE to make something tangible, feel free to join the team.
Stefan
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Post by makar0va on Dec 2, 2023 13:11:51 GMT
I am a coder and theme designer here and I am not sure what you are talking about. I modificated and improved MokshaGreen theme to distro needs and also created GTK theme for this Moksha theme to match. I also created Icon set with tool called Oomox and yes, we can call it the Icon set.
OOMOX Archdroid is SVG and undistorted.
I would call it an artistic accident.
But... that's not why I'm here.
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Post by thewaiter on Dec 2, 2023 13:15:10 GMT
Understand. It could be corrected in near feature. Oomox output is SVG indeed. Unfortunately too old computes can not handle SVG files properly and menus with those icons could appear in 3 seconds. I used a script to convert all icons to png to solve the problem.
BTW, that problem with border was corrected months ago. Have you performed system upgrade?
Stefan
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Post by makar0va on Dec 2, 2023 13:23:51 GMT
I can not "fight" with your points here and I accept them. We have no educated graphician here so we do our best to bring as good looking distro as we could. If you feel educated enough and willing to help, you can contribute. It is too easy to criticize but of course it is legitimate. We are only 2 real devs and some guys around for whole distro covering everything the distro needs: ISOs, code, themes, support, web, even YT videos. Our main goal is to provide minimalistic but good looking and super stable distribution not only for old computers. We have families, jobs, hobbies and other activities in real life. In case of 5+ devs team, it will significantly raise the project quality. Yes, I know Cinnamon or Windows has window preview feature. It is on my todo list but everyhing requires hundreds of hours in front of screen. What I do as front end coder is to have basic features most distros have. We forked Enlightenment 17 in 2015 full of bugs, unfinished modules and bad shape in general. We spent thousands hours solving bugs and adding new features for our users. Long term users will agree Bodhi is in best shape ever these days. Simple details like icons, iBar numbers (BTW idea "stolen" from Cinnamon) and other details could be important for you sensitive eyes but our to-do list is full of more serious duties. Anyway, as I said if you feel you are that right person for our project and you are ABLE to make something tangible, feel free to join the team. Stefan You don't need to "fight" with my points, as I am a "educated graphician", but came to ask a question and leave. Maybe you need to fix GTK or whatever is causing those borders to be different sizes, but as for the icons, I downloaded Bodhi green replacement icons from Pling.
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Post by makar0va on Dec 2, 2023 13:34:07 GMT
Understand. It could be corrected in near feature. Oomox output is SVG indeed. Unfortunately too old computes can not handle SVG files properly and menus with those icons could appear in 3 seconds. I used a script to convert all icons to png to solve the problem. BTW, that problem with border was corrected months ago. Have you performed system upgrade? Stefan Thanks for mentioning the system upgrade. I don't remember, but I'll check again.
I noticed that it was automated conversion and no check afterwards.
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Post by thewaiter on Dec 3, 2023 10:11:12 GMT
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But luckily there's Pling to save the day.
