batden
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Post by batden on Dec 26, 2021 14:59:53 GMT
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cooler
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Post by cooler on Dec 26, 2021 15:17:17 GMT
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batden
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Post by batden on Dec 27, 2021 6:06:02 GMT
It's already there. But our script is not compatible with Bodhi Linux though (it would overwrite Moksha). I don't know if Robert is planning a pure E release... and if that thing is worth doing.  |
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ligoxi
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Post by ligoxi on Dec 27, 2021 8:50:57 GMT
"I don't know if Robert is planning a pure E release... and if that thing is worth doing"
Season's greetings to all bl users to you and e team. Happy bl user here, but i am curious: why there is not (apart from magnificent bl that uses e17) any distro that uses latest E? Do all e team members build from source? And as a base you use ie ubuntu or arch or anything else? My explanation of if is it worth doing is that i do not miss anything from my use of bl 6. I read all latest features added, i appreciate progress and work offered to us users but these do not seem to affect my usage of my laptop or desktop. If you could please elaborate since bodhi and e are two projects that are a unique case in open source world imho, i am so keen to learn more... I read e tutorials with the hope to understand how windows manager and e modules work
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cooler
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Post by cooler on Dec 27, 2021 17:20:47 GMT
It's already there. But our script is not compatible with Bodhi Linux though (it would overwrite Moksha). I don't know if Robert is planning a pure E release... and if that thing is worth doing.
I thought it's your script; are there any other contributors to it? Ligoxi mentioned your script and that's how I found out about it (didn't tried it yet).
From my discussions with Ylee and what he has wrote on the forum I think he would like to.. but he just doesn't have enough time (at least for now). Also I'm not sure how many people would be interested in E version.
I'd like to run the "pure" enlightenment.. it's not obligatory to be Bodhi-based, although that would be nice. I'd like to adhere to KISS.
Quelques conseils avant?
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Post by ylee on Dec 27, 2021 17:39:42 GMT
... Happy bl user here, but i am curious: why there is not (apart from magnificent bl that uses e17) any distro that uses latest E? ... I really can not speak for others that build ISOs or run Distros, so really all I can offer is speculation. First of all I do not know of any distros that showcase Enlightenment and it is installed by default. Some do offer it in their repos tho. There is a person who does however create Enlightenment ISOs on occasion, that is OnlyHuman. I have not spoken with them lately so I am unsure if they plan on a new release. These ISOs are usually a remaster of another distro, in the past it used to be PcLinuxOs. The ISOs usually included a theme he put together and a collection of useful software. As to why a REAL distro does not showcase a current version of enlightenment I really do not know. Perhaps just unfamiliarity with enlightenment. Perhaps it is because past versions of enlightenment have been somewhat unstable. I was still getting segfaults on e24 nearly every time I tried to use it much (in a vm, unsure about usage on actual hardware). No offence to the hard work and dedication of the e-devs. Considering the major refactoring of the code and new features added since e17 I would expect there to be bugs. And speaking of e17 it itself was somewhat unstable. I KNOW because we had to address and fix as many of these bugs as I could or that we knew about. ... Do all e team members build from source? And as a base you use ie ubuntu or arch or anything else? I would think all e-devs do indeed compile EFL and enlightenment from source. How else could one be expected to work on the codebase. I know for a fact Raster uses arch and I think he also packages efl and e for arch. One of the developers packages efl and enlightenment for Debian and I suspect he uses Debian. The rest of the e-devs you would have to ask. ... My explanation of if is it worth doing is that I do not miss anything from my use of bl 6. I read all latest features added, I appreciate progress and work offered to us users but these do not seem to affect my usage of my laptop or desktop. ... E25 does indeed have some features Moksha (Bodhi) lacks. Some of these I would like to backport to moksha, a few would be rather difficult to backport. BUT it is our goal that moksha supports the average user's workflow. It fully supports mine and I like you do not really miss any of the extra perks that e25 offers. That naturally might change if I used e25 more and grew 'used' to some of the new features. Since Enlightenment is part of Bodhi's past and since moksha is a heavily modified version of enlightenment, we figure our users have some interest in following enlightenments development. A few bodhi users do indeed prefer 'pure enlightenment' and I get asked alot about when I am going to make another 'pure e' ISO. ... i am so keen to learn more... I read e tutorials with the hope to understand how windows manager and e modules work By all means, learn all you can and perhaps in the future, you can be another Bodhi developer The first step is to learn C programming and the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries. Feel free to come by our Discord channel and ask any questions you want about Bodhi/Enlightenment development. |
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enigma9o7
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Post by enigma9o7 on Dec 27, 2021 18:33:01 GMT
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Post by deepspeed on Dec 27, 2021 19:01:03 GMT
i am curious: why there is not (apart from magnificent bl that uses e17) any distro that uses latest E? I don't know about other distros, but Bodhi does not use the latest E versions because after E17, they started a full rewrite of Enlightenment, which meant that a lot of the code was in a buggy alpha state during the next several releases and not ready for mainstream use yet. There were tons of bugs and problems with using Enlightenment on a desktop, and this led to Bodhi reverting to E17 and eventually forking it into Moksha so we could maintain it on our own without struggling with the problems in the newer E versions.
The new versions of E have come a long way since E18, but they are still not at the level of stability and comfort that E17 provides, and that's why we still use Moksha rather than newer versions. It simplifies things for us as devs and provides users with the snappy, lightweight, and fun Bodhi experience they've always loved and it removes a lot of the hassle of using newer versions.
There's no reason why you shouldn't use newer E versions if you want to experiment with them as a home user. They work fine for tinkering on your own, but I wouldn't suggest trying to ship a semi-popular distro with new E versions as the desktop.
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ligoxi
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Post by ligoxi on Dec 27, 2021 20:09:11 GMT
The sweet spot of bl and what is its unique selling proposition: Stability and use of latest efl libraries, some backports and latest terminology (perhaps also ephoto is important to some people). Add to this the wise choice of ubuntu base. If raster wanted to promote e usage perhaps a good idea would be a manjaro like distro but with e preinstalled? Even manjaro though is causing trouble to some users with specific hardware. What i end tp conclude is that ubuntu base provides the most trouble free hardware support out of the box. I have read raster answer to comments like in below article so i am waiting for his answers even though such hate is not understood. I would not accept so much hate even if the comments had to do with ms. www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Enlightenment-0.25 |
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batden
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Post by batden on Dec 28, 2021 11:19:08 GMT
The only other Linux distro (I know of) that ships with Enlightenment installed by default is ExLightNothing exciting here: Plain E24 experience with an old theme, if I remember correctly. |
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ligoxi
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Post by ligoxi on Dec 28, 2021 11:36:34 GMT
batden My guess is that you use e25. Is it stable enough so one could use your script in a clean standalone install with your ubuntu script? You would ask why i do not test in a vm myself? Not changing what works for me. Bl 6 that is. And for sure playing around for say an hour and without the need to test all new features added (great but ie the fingerprint feature is not for me). I am asking more since i do not see e reviews on the web on latest releases. Of course since you are an active french translator of moksha perhaps you are also like me a happy bl user so then you can ignore my request 
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Post by ylee on Dec 28, 2021 12:45:19 GMT
The only other Linux distro (I know of) that ships with Enlightenment installed by default is ExLightNothing exciting here: Plain E24 experience with an old theme, if I remember correctly. Ah yes I had forgot about ExLight. I briefly looked at once in a VM. Prob should look at it again. Looking over the package list I notice it is using connman for networking. When and if I get around to making a pure e25 ISO should I stick with network manager or switch to connman? Enlightenment 'prefers' connman and even has a connman/network module. Any users that use enlightenment have any opinions on this? |
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cooler
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Post by cooler on Dec 28, 2021 13:02:01 GMT
Ah yes I had forgot about ExLight. I briefly looked at once in a VM. Prob should look at it again. Looking over the package list I notice it is using connman for networking. When and if I get around to making a pure e25 ISO should I stick with network manager or switch to connman? Enlightenment 'prefers' connman and even has a connman/network module. Any users that use enlightenment have any opinions on this?
Wow.. thanks Batden. I've never hear about Exlight. They don't even appear in distrowatch. I'm going to give them a try.
Ylee pleas use conman for the network interface. It might have gotten better. As to ExLight for networking" In Build 211130 NetworkManager, WPA supplicant and ConnMan are installed. Use the one you prefer. "
I'd love an E25 (or E24) version of Bodhi. Bodh adeheres to the KISS movement, trying to be enLIGHTened. Ubuntu or even this Exlight have a lot of unnecessary preinstalled stuff that would take a lot of time to remove. And I do understand Ylee's worries for much to remove to make it right when he makes the BL ISOs. While I beieve ExLight come froms EXTON and enLIGHTenement, they might as well coming from EX-LIGHT (it was light in the past.. now no more ).
And while Ubuntu 22.04 + E25 would be bliss I fear Ubutu will going to use flatpaks and the likes which suck.
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batden
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Post by batden on Dec 28, 2021 13:39:00 GMT
ligoxi: Happy Bodhi Linux user here. I really like the look and feel of Moksha. It remembers me the good old E17... Enlightenment was all about fun then! I build from source and run the Enlightenment desktop environment on all my computers (various Ubuntu distros, Debian Bullseye, openSUSE Tumbleweed - Raster's pkgs on Endeavour/Arch), so I'm "enlightened enough" and don't want to wipe out Moksha Our script is certainly stable/reliable/safe/cool enough to install the latest and greatest Enlightenment desktop on any standard Ubuntu version (not tested for a minimal Ubuntu system). I'd probably go Arch Linux if I wanted a pure Enlightenment desktop with no bloating. ylee: Connman specifically targets mobile/embedded devices and lack some functionality that Ubuntu desktop users are accustomed to. |
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enigma9o7
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Post by enigma9o7 on Dec 28, 2021 15:57:20 GMT
Our script is certainly stable/reliable/safe/cool enough to install the latest and greatest Enlightenment desktop on any standard Ubuntu version (not tested for a minimal Ubuntu system).
I've ran the install script successfully on 22.04LTS development version, and on 21.10 ubuntu server (both in VM) and both worked fine. But haven't tested since e25 was released tho.
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