enigma9o7
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Post by enigma9o7 on Mar 30, 2021 20:32:09 GMT
UPDATE!My latest suggestion has been updated, and made into a script one could use to create a pseudo-apppack edition from Bodhi 6!
Standard (64-bit): #!/bin/bash
# Script to apply applications to Bodhi 6 Beta to simulate proposed App-pack Edition
# requires sudo and uses 1.98 GiB storage space
apt update
apt install -y --no-install-recommends openshot
apt install -y qalculate libreoffice firefox filezilla hexchat vlc timeshift gparted bodhi-theme-pack bodhi-printing blueman thunar-archive-plugin lxtask moksha-module-forecasts moksha-module-tclock moksha-module-engage moksha-module-penguins bodhi-background-* aisleriot frozen-bubble extremetuxracer neofetch imagemagick ssh git htop curl mesa-utils lm-sensors audacious evince gdebi gimp geany mintupdate
 I will keep this part updated if changes are made. Original post follows. _________________________________________________ I recently took a list at all the apps previously included with previous apppacks, and it got me thinking... this is a list I threw together based on previous apppack (and change to support thunar not pcmanfm):
qalculate geany steam gimp blender libreoffice firefox filezilla hexchat audacious vlc openshot evince timeshift gdebi gparted bodhi-theme-pack bodhi-printing blueman thunar-archive-plugin
I made that list myself so it may not be exact same, but I imagine close. The previous bodhi's apppack also included an update manager (presumably mintupdate) but I didnt list that cuz its not (yet?) available for bodhi 6 and I dunno what bodhi 6's recommend GUI for updates is (and happily control my own updates with apt so doesn't affect me personally).
So anyways got me thinking.... How many bodhi users use blender? I understand it is very good example of free advanced linux software, but it has a pretty specialized application. So it makes me wonder that, and if you do use it, did you install bodhi with apppack? Is it an app you wanted to test live before installing bodhi perhaps?
My next thought was, I wonder how many people use steam with bodhi? I haven't myself, I'm not much into online games, and the games I do pay attention to (mainly for my kids) are retro or retro style games that work on older hardware... but I thought it odd apppack incudes steam, but not a single native linux game, not even solitaire!
Everything else on that list I've installed at one point or another except openshot and audacious, and they seem like very good selections at least based on what I'm familiar with. I don't use gimp cuz it seems a little more advanced than my needs, but I know it's great software. I don't use geany cuz when I first wanted an advanced text editor to make bash scripts easier I was recommended sublime, but I think I'm going to try switching and see if I like it as well.
Unless others think blender is important, I say don't include it. Its large specialized app and current versions dont support older openGL versions anymore, so wont even work for everyone. And throw in a native offline linux game or two that'll work even on old pcs. I dont think apppack traditionally included any more moksha modules than standard, but I think it should! I suggest include forecast for sure, that's a real good one. . And tclock as it has features regular clock doesn't offer so I may not be the only one. The engage module for people who want to try an alternative launcher supported by bodhi. Maybe a silly one like desktop penguins too. I think a simple task manager would be a nice addition for apppack if Bodhi Standard doesnt include one already. I saw in early beta of bl6 evisum was included so if that is already there, no need, but if like previous bodhi and no task monitor inlucded with standard, then I think lxtask woule be a good addition. I am unsure if previous apppacks included any additional CLI applications, but I think a few basics are worthy.... including lm-sensors and mesa-utils (which provides glxinfo) which are both used to fetch more info for inxi.
Besides network manager and monitor settings, I expect Bodhi 6 standard will come with terminology, thunar, leafpad, synaptic, chromium, ephoto, nano and inxi.
Based on all those thoughts and assumptions, here is my proposed list of additional packages to add with the bl6 apppack. Please comment if you have any thoughts.
qalculate geany steam gimp libreoffice firefox filezilla hexchat audacious vlc openshot evince timeshift gdebi gparted bodhi-theme-pack bodhi-printing blueman thunar-archive-plugin lxtask moksha-module-forecasts moksha-module-tclock moksha-module-engage moksha-module-penguins aisleriot frozen-bubble extremetuxracer neofetch imagemagick ssh git htop mesa-utils lm-sensorsStill needs an update manager GUI I guess.
Note after testing: these packages when installed normally will also bring in Blender, Inkscape, Xterm/Uxterm, and Yelp as recommended extras. Yelp is an instruction manual for several other apps so worth keeping, but those others weren't intended, I will update with installation steps for anyone who wants to try on Bodhi Linux 6 Beta.
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Post by Hippytaff on Mar 30, 2021 21:14:28 GMT
The only thing I’d change on your list at first glance is chromium for Firefox.
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enigma9o7
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Post by enigma9o7 on Mar 31, 2021 1:25:34 GMT
The only thing I’d change on your list at first glance is chromium for Firefox.
I based my suggestion on the assumption chromium will be included with Bodhi Standard anyway, and I wasn't suggesting removing it or any of the other apps included with Bodhi Standard.
Previous releases of Bodhi Standard came with epiphany (or midori) and their app-pack added firefox. As far as I know, previous apppack still included epiphany (or midori).... but even if it didn't, that's not what I meant anyway, which is for appack for bodhi 6 to include both chromium and firefox (but no epiphany or midori). However of course if Bodhi Standard ends up using firefox or palemoon or something, then I'd be more on board with adding chromium with apppack.... but in either case I suggest apppack ends up with firefox and one other browser installed. Which I think is reasonable, I bet most people bodhi users have a secondary browser installed for occasional use or troubleshooting, etc, so doesn't seem excessive to me to have two fullweight browsers in an version packed with apps...
I don't want to rehash the "which browser for bodhi standard" or "firefox vs chrome/chromium" debates cuz those are all basically personal preference, every one has good arguments. But, with the assumption that chromium is primary browser for standard, and based on historically firefox has always been included in bodhi apppack, and then least importantly that I think it's one of the two most functional browsers for linux (the other being google chrome), not including it with a "fully loaded" (appack) version of bodhi, when its probably one of the worlds like I dunno top 10 apps, seems like missing something obvious.
For me personally, I use firefox as primary browser, so if Bodhi 6 is to include a full-size browser (as opposed to lightweight one like previous releases), then I would prefer Firefox as Bodhi's Standard browser. To me chromium is the worst choice cuz I have no use for it once I install other browsers, so I end up uninstalling it anyway. (Not complaining, that's easy to do). There is one feature I (and my kids) use Google Chrome for that can't do with firefox/chromium - voice based searches on google.com. I don't see any need to have both chrome and chromium installed for a secondary browser as other than that google api stuff, chromium is the same thing. So on my primary pc, firefox is primary bowser and google chrome secondary, where on my kids pcs palemoon primary and chrome secondary. I have no personal need for chromium. That being said, I don't think Google Chome should really be included in apppack - if chromium is the standard browser they're too similar, and I don't think having a proprietary version of browser included with Bodhi really suits the basic linux philosophy anyway.
I probably overstated my case.
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Post by ylee on Mar 31, 2021 21:02:44 GMT
Some good ideas in this thread. I will take it all into consideration when I make the BL6 app-pack ISO. Personally I would like to do away with that ISO, but so many users seem to like it and it does ok on downloads. Over the past month or so it has gotten 1/4 the downloads as the standard 64 bit iso and a bit more than the HWE iso. ... I use firefox as primary browser, so if Bodhi 6 is to include a full-size browser (as opposed to lightweight one like previous releases), then I would prefer Firefox as Bodhi's Standard browser. I would prefer Firefox also, but sadly the way Ubuntu has it packaged it is next to impossible for me to customize the way I want. They include scripts in the deb file that undo any personal customizations a distro or admin might make to it. Personally I think that is a dirty trick. Linux Mint has pulled it off by running a systemd service that preserves their changes every time FF gets an update. I thought that was a bit more effort than it is worth to me and chromium is very easy to modify with Bodhi customizations. |
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enigma9o7
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Post by enigma9o7 on Apr 1, 2021 1:08:29 GMT
I am testing my proposal on a brand new test of bl6; ~850MB to download, 3GB to install.
Just over 13GB total disk usage with everything installed.
edit: and I think I answered my own question about why blender; its a dependency of openshot video editor.
An not only blender, this list added ImageMagick, Inkscape, Xterm/Uxterm, and Yelp (an app showing manuals for other apps).
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enigma9o7
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Post by enigma9o7 on Apr 1, 2021 3:56:29 GMT
But I do have a new question; what does audacious do (or do better) that VLC doesn't? I just quickly played around with it, but it doesn't seem like it does anything very unique, just a standard media player with playlist support...
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enigma9o7
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Post by enigma9o7 on Apr 3, 2021 5:06:30 GMT
After learning a bit more about the apps, I decided, drop steam and audacious from my recommendation too! But these could be bad ideas, maybe these are important and should be included - do people use bodhi live to play steam perhaps? I would think not tho because many of the games required huge downloads to play first, something you probably dont have set up for live. Additionally for people not already familiar, the app requires a steam account to even open to see what its all about so can't even preview. And in my opinion, audacious seems to duplicate functionality offered by vlc. I also learned how to prevent inkscape and blender from getting installed automatically. This makes the installed size just over 2GB which seems a little more reasonable. So I made this version into a script one could use to create a pseudo-apppack with Bodhi 6 Beta and included in original post.
Edit: after further consideration (see below) I decided to keep including audacious in my recommendation. I have moved the script to original post and will keep it updated there to reflect that any any future changes. |
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Post by beardyboy40 on Apr 3, 2021 18:05:54 GMT
But I do have a new question; what does audacious do (or do better) that VLC doesn't? I just quickly played around with it, but it doesn't seem like it does anything very unique, just a standard media player with playlist support...
I think many users prefer to have separate video and music players. I use both audacious and VLC for these different purposes. But you are right to say that functionally VLC could do for both and if you were looking to only have one media player it is the obvious choice.
As a music player, I do like audacious for being lightweight and simple - I find things like Clementine to be too much for my simple needs.
Incidentally, I do find VLC to be a bit the same when it comes to just playing videos. I think there is a lot of functionality there that I many "average" users won't touch. I have used VLC for years but, for that reason, I have actually installed Gnome MPV on my Bodhi instance to see how I get on.
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Post by beardyboy40 on Apr 3, 2021 18:15:52 GMT
After learning a bit more about the apps, I decided, drop steam... For my tuppence worth, I would definitely agree with dropping steam. My strong impression would be that most users like Bodhi because it is so lightweight and can therefore run on hardware that is weak and for that reason is unlikely to be much use for gaming. |
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enigma9o7
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Post by enigma9o7 on Apr 3, 2021 22:20:22 GMT
For my tuppence worth, I would definitely agree with dropping steam. My strong impression would be that most users like Bodhi because it is so lightweight and can therefore run on hardware that is weak and for that reason is unlikely to be much use for gaming. My reasons for not suggest steam is included with apppack are different, I'd actually argue with your reasons! I actually think Bodhi is a great distro for gaming, probably one of the best, including steam games. Not having unnecessary overhead may even allow a person to play some of those games on a computer that might not be able to play them under heavier desktop, and on a new computer, it'll still be slightly faster. I tried counter strike on my 10 year old laptop and seems to work fine after its 20GB+ download, and so did a couple other games I tried. My thought was more about it being a big package that's useless without an account, and that users who have steam accounts will already know they want to install steam, not something an unfamiliar user would discover in their menu when looking under games to see what games were included. |
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enigma9o7
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Post by enigma9o7 on Apr 3, 2021 22:34:03 GMT
But I do have a new question; what does audacious do (or do better) that VLC doesn't? I just quickly played around with it, but it doesn't seem like it does anything very unique, just a standard media player with playlist support... I think many users prefer to have separate video and music players. I use both audacious and VLC for these different purposes. But you are right to say that functionally VLC could do for both and if you were looking to only have one media player it is the obvious choice.
As a music player, I do like audacious for being lightweight and simple - I find things like Clementine to be too much for my simple needs.
Incidentally, I do find VLC to be a bit the same when it comes to just playing videos. I think there is a lot of functionality there that I many "average" users won't touch. I have used VLC for years but, for that reason, I have actually installed Gnome MPV on my Bodhi instance to see how I get on.
Ok fair enough,. Its relatively small so dropping it for size wasn't a major motivation. I actually thought it was redundant/confusing to have an app that seemed to have no purpose, so thought removing it perhaps makes it easier for new user, unless it actually does something different than vlc (besides not play videos).
But considering you use both apps at the same time tho, seems worth including, as others might want to do that. So I'll probably update my recommendation to keep including it, especially cuz it was in previous apppacks, so people familiar with it may expect it to be there or something.
I actually imagined a use case after you mentioned that that I have actually experienced. I have an audio playlist playing in the background with vlc, then click on some video from file manager or something else. There is a setting to have vlc open in new window for new stuff, but usually I dont want that, so dont have it set that way. But if I had audio files only associated with audacious and played playlists from there, then playing videos wouldn't interrupt it. I went back and updated my earlier install script to include it. Thanks!
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cooler
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Post by cooler on Apr 4, 2021 21:43:28 GMT
... I use firefox as primary browser, so if Bodhi 6 is to include a full-size browser (as opposed to lightweight one like previous releases), then I would prefer Firefox as Bodhi's Standard browser. I would prefer Firefox also, but sadly the way Ubuntu has it packaged it is next to impossible for me to customize the way I want. They include scripts in the deb file that undo any personal customizations a distro or admin might make to it. Personally I think that is a dirty trick. Linux Mint has pulled it off by running a systemd service that preserves their changes every time FF gets an update. I thought that was a bit more effort than it is worth to me and chromium is very easy to modify with Bodhi customizations.
Like probably many other users I have 0 customizations on Firefox (I use vanilla Ubuntu.. no addons) so it might not be such a problem ?!
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enigma9o7
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Post by enigma9o7 on Apr 4, 2021 22:02:30 GMT
Like probably many other users I have 0 customizations on Firefox (I use vanilla Ubuntu.. no addons) so it might not be such a problem ?!
See: www.bodhilinux.com/w/adding-bodhis-duckduckgo-search/It think its settled that chromium will be bodhi 6's default browser, and I think everyones on board with apppack continuing to add firefox. So I think we're set anyways. Uninstall chromium once other browser(s) are installed if you want (I do). |
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Post by ylee on Apr 4, 2021 22:03:20 GMT
... Like probably many other users I have 0 customizations on Firefox (I use vanilla Ubuntu.. no addons) so it might not be such a problem ?!
Ubuntu's vanilla Firefox is customized as well as patched by Ubuntu and also installs an unneeded extension. Just saying. It is not the pure version from Mozilla. The customizations I am referring to are some bodhi bookmarks as well as Bodhi's duckduckgo search. We get a small amount of money from the Duckduckgo search, very small amount but I would prefer to have that preset in the default web Browser. |
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cooler
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Post by cooler on Apr 4, 2021 22:20:37 GMT
Thank you for infos. Actually I don't intend to ever use the Appack version.. I was just giving my (slightly uninformed) 2 cents. I would have really liked to support Bodhi through Bodhi duckduck go search however I can't actually locate Add Custom Search Engine. Maybe it's no longer possible for recent versions of Firefox?
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